The best social sharing snippet from Emily in this interview… “Writing website copy really is an art and a science. That’s what a copywriter does is help you pull out the pieces of your message that are impactful and important and going to attract the kind of clients you want.”
The best social sharing snippet from Josh in this interview… “These are like the Holy Trinity of a great web design presence. Design, copy, and SEO. Clients need to understand that these things all work together in tandem and are very important.”
In this episode, I brought in web design business coach Josh Hall and copywriter Emily Aborn to discuss the “Holy Trinity” of creating a great website—design, copy, and SEO. We explored which should come first, common mistakes business owners make, and how to convince clients to invest in all three. If you’ve ever wondered why your website isn’t performing as well as it should, this episode is for you!
Resources
Emily’s website
Josh’s website
The blog post that inspired the show.
Listen On Apple Podcasts
Listen on Spotify
Watch the Podcast or Read the Post Below
In this special episode of The Small Business Sweet Spot, I took an easy-going approach (as easy-going as a live can go) into website creation with guests Josh Hall, a web design business coach, and copywriter Emily Aborn. I had fun chatting with them about how web design, copywriting, and SEO each play critial roles in building an effective website.
Spoiler: It’s not just about making things look pretty! We talked about common pitfalls, how to prioritize these elements, and why all three should work together from the start.
And first, the joke….
*Clears throat.*
A website designer, a copywriter, and an SEO strategist walk into a bar.
The bartender asks, “Whaddya having?”
Frowning, the designer says, “I’ve got some ideas. But I’ll order once I’ve seen what the others are drinking.”
The bartender sticks an empty glass on the bar to hold their place.
The copywriter pipes up. “I’ll have a beer please.” But they quickly turn to the SEO strategist and ask under their breath, “Should I have said ‘cold one,’ ‘pint,’ ‘brewski,’ or ‘ale’ instead in this part of the world?”
Thinking this over, the SEO decides. “Beer is fine,” they say. “But you’ll get a better result if you specify whether you want it in a glass, a bottle, or a can.”
Nodding, the copywriter orders 3 bottles of beer.
And the bartender is left thinking, Wow. That was a lot just to order 3 bottles of beer.
Cue laughter.
The Chicken, the Egg, and the Website: Where Do You Start?
One of the biggest questions we tackled was: What comes first when building or redesigning a website—design, copy, or SEO? Our answers varied:
- Josh’s Take (Design First): As a web designer, Josh naturally leans toward starting with design. He argues that visual elements grab a client’s attention first, setting the tone for the entire user experience. However, he acknowledged that even the best-looking site won’t convert if the copy and SEO aren’t up to par.
- Emily’s Perspective (Copy Comes First, Sort of): Emily views copywriting as closely intertwined with design. Strong messaging can guide the design process, and the copy needs to fit seamlessly into the layout. She also noted that copywriting shouldn’t be about word count—it’s about how well the content serves your audience’s needs.
- Barb’s Stance (SEO Starts Early): From an SEO perspective, Barb emphasized the importance of keyword research upfront. While SEO can be adjusted over time, it’s much easier to incorporate good practices from the start than to overhaul a site later.
Ultimately, the consensus was that all three—design, copy, and SEO—need to work in tandem for the best results. Think of it as the Holy Trinity of web development.
When It All Goes Wrong
Throughout our conversation, each of us shared cautionary tales about what happens when one of the three key components—design, copy, or SEO—is overlooked. Here’s a closer look at the horror stories we’ve encountered, and the valuable lessons they offer:
Josh’s Example (The Vanishing SEO): Josh talked about a client whose SEO rankings disappeared after a site redesign by a well-meaning neighbor who didn’t understand the nuances of SEO. The redesign involved creating entirely new pages with different URLs, completely deleting the old site. There were no backups or records of the previous structure, resulting in a significant drop in search rankings and online visibility. The client, who once benefited from steady organic traffic, had to start all over to regain a presence on search engines.
Barb’s Nightmare (SEO Neglect in a Redesign): Barb recounted several cases where a client redesigned their website, only to watch their traffic plummet to zero. One common scenario involves forgetting to uncheck a box in WordPress that tells search engines to ignore the site while it’s under development. The new site launches, but it’s essentially invisible to Google because it’s still being blocked from indexing. Another frequent issue is changing the URL structure or rebranding with a new domain without implementing proper redirects. This essentially wipes out any SEO equity the site had, forcing the business to start from scratch in building its online presence. Even if a site looks better and has fresh content, it needs time for search engines to recognize the changes, and mishandling the transition can result in significant traffic loss.
Emily’s Painful Experience (DIY Design Gone Wrong): Emily shared the frustration of seeing beautifully crafted copy buried in poorly executed DIY design projects. She recounted cases where clients, after investing in professional copywriting, would take on the website design themselves to save money. The result? Websites with disorganized layouts, unclear hierarchy, and unrecognizable sections. Headlines and bullet points were lost in the chaos, making it difficult for visitors to navigate the site. This problem doesn’t just impact aesthetics; it affects conversion rates. A visually confusing site can drive visitors away before they even have a chance to engage with the well-written content. Emily also faced clients who misunderstood SEO, insisting on using keywords that didn’t align with how their audience searched online, thereby reducing the effectiveness of their messaging.
Essential Pages and the Role of Each Component
If you’re building a website with these three elements in mind, start with these essentials:
- Homepage: Your homepage should serve as a hub that directs visitors to the most important parts of your site. Design it to make a strong first impression, but remember that your words (copy) matter just as much. Make sure SEO best practices are in place for meta descriptions and headings.
- Services Page: This is where SEO and copy can really shine. Use targeted keywords to describe your services, and write persuasive copy that speaks directly to your ideal clients. Design-wise, make the page easy to navigate so visitors can quickly find the information they need.
- Contact Page: Don’t underestimate this one. While the contact page might not seem like an SEO goldmine, it’s a crucial part of converting visitors into leads. Make sure the design encourages visitors to get in touch, and include copy that reassures them they’re making the right decision.
Overcoming Resistance to Investing in All Three
A common issue is convincing clients of the value in hiring specialists for design, copywriting, and SEO. Here’s how each of us would tackle it:
- Josh’s Advice: Frame it as an investment rather than an expense. If the cost of a new website or SEO service could be offset by just one or two new customers, the ROI is clear.
- Emily’s Approach: Explain that while clients may think they can write their own copy, they likely don’t understand how to write website copy. It’s an art that involves knowing how to guide a visitor through the site and prompt action.
- Barb’s Perspective: Stress the importance of tracking the results. By setting up proper analytics, you can show clients the measurable impact of SEO efforts and how improved rankings can lead to real business growth.
The Takeaways
- Josh’s Key Point: Think of your website as a 24/7 salesperson. Invest in design, copy, and SEO because they work together to attract and convert visitors.
- Emily’s Insight: Your website won’t succeed just by existing. A solid foundation with all three elements gives you the best chance to engage your audience and drive results.
- Barb’s Reminder: Consider the entire customer journey. Good SEO brings people to your site, compelling copy keeps them there, and user-friendly design helps them take action.
In Summary
Whether you’re building a website from scratch or going through a redesign, remember that web design, copywriting, and SEO are all essential components. Each plays a different role in attracting, engaging, and converting your audience. When done right, they complement each other, creating a website that doesn’t just look good but also works effectively for your business.
About the Guests
- Josh Hall: Web design business coach and founder of Web Designer Pro, Josh helps web designers grow their businesses through coaching, courses, and community. Find him at WebDesignerPro.com.
- Emily Aborn: A copywriter who helps business owners bring their messaging to life, Emily also hosts the Content with Character podcast. Learn more at EmilyAborn.com.
Host Barb Davids helps small business owners thrive online through SEO and digital strategies. Check out more episodes of The Small Business Sweet Spot and learn more at Compass Digital Strategies.
